I ran into this interesting read over at The Blog Herald about a blogger, identified by Fox News as "right wing," who was recently arrested for allegedly urging his readers to "take up arms" against some Connecticut politicians.TBH didn't provide a link, but I found this story on NJ.com...
North Bergen white supremacist shock blogger Harold "Hal" Turner is awaiting extradition on a warrant charging him with inciting his Web site's readers to threaten two Connecticut lawmakers and a state ethics office employee.And this from the Hartford Courant...
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A Connecticut radio station quotes the State Capitol police chief as saying Turner's comments went "above and beyond the threshold of free speech.'"
"He is inciting others through his Web site to commit acts of violence and has created fear and alarm,'' Chief Michael Fallon said. "He should be held accountable for his conduct.''
Turner, who has been identified as a white supremacist and anti-Semite by several anti-racism groups, hosts an Internet radio program with an associated blog. On Tuesday, the blog included a post that promised to release the home addresses of state Rep. Michael Lawlor, state Sen. Andrew McDonald and Thomas Jones of the State Ethics Office.Daily Kos had a blip on it yesterday. And from The Nation we find out that Sean Hannity was a friend of Mr. Turner.
"It is our intent to foment direct action against these individuals personally,'' the blog stated. "These beastly government officials should be made an example of as a warning to others in government: Obey the Constitution or die."
Turner was once a prominent activist in New Jersey's Republican Party. To area conservatives, he was best known by his moniker for call-ins to the Sean Hannity Show, "Hal from North Bergen." For years, Hannity offered his top-rated radio show as a regular forum for Turner's occasionally racist, always over-the-top rants. Hannity also chatted with him off-air, allegedly offering encouragement to Turner as he struggled to overcome a cocaine habit and homosexual leanings. Turner has boasted that Hannity once invited Turner and his son on to the set of Fox News's Hannity and Colmes.It's encouraging to see a line [finally] being established by authorities saying that enough is enough with the hate speech and the threats. In this case, Mr. Turner apparently crossed that line.
I think this is a reminder to those in the media and, more importantly, to bloggers, that we all have to be responsible in our rhetoric. Threats, innuendos implying violence and outright calls to action are not acceptable in this day and age, and everyone needs to be sensible when blogging or when speaking into a microphone.
On a sidenote, when can we start calling this right wing extremism a trend?
-photo via Crooks and Liars
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12 comments:
Actually, Although I do find his racist mentality appalling, I commend the guy for going after the politicians. He's just doing to them what they do to us. I don't have any problems with that. Most of these politicians are power hungry, take advantage of the system and taxpayer, threaten to enslave and take away people's properties and rights via the justice or the tax system. I really don't see anything wrong with scaring the hell out of them.
PS. Are his racist comments a thoughtcrime? I mean really, are we now at the point where people are being prosecuted for their thoughts and beliefs?
PPS. ANything that doesn't tow the party line is considered racist, hate speech, and other things. Sounds like thoughtcrimes are alive and well.
sticks and stones......the motto before the politicaly correct world we live in. ive listened to Hal Turner,... and while he may be out spoken on a type of person he is not talking about the group. when he says the n word , it is related to the specific group of trashy,and dishonest individuals of the black race. The same for when he mentions jews. To be a arrested for having a point of view and expressing that point of view is chilling. WHEN WILL TEHY COME FOR YOU!!!
Geez guys, learn to read or more likely, don't try to ignore the facts: Turner is not under warrant for any "thought" crimes. He allegedly incited violence against three specific individuals. That's a crime.
I am very liberal in my views about free speech. Therefore, I am very skeptical about the whole concept of "incitement." I think people are responsible for the acts they commit, and that there is no such thing as remote "mind control."
You know, when I told conservative friends of my plans to vote for Obama, they accused me of falling prey to a silver tongued demagogue like the rest of the "sheeple." I have a lot of faith in people, and don't believe in the concept of a "flock" of people. Each individual makes up his own mind what to do.
I don't see how we're not doing the same thing here. Sure, perhaps the blogger's ideas and statements are appalling. Well, others may not get this, but that's why I love America. We can say whatever we want.
I mean, what are we saying when we say that other human beings are susceptible to "incitment?" Okay, well does that mean my conservative friends have a point about Obama's election? Was I simply overwhelmed by all the media, slogans and hooplah surrounding the campaign? Because as sure as I voted my conscious and based on what I thought seemed logical, I have to admit there was a lot of hype. So was I "incited?"
I don't think I'm susceptible to "incitement" and I believe that only children are susceptible (ex. "I double-dog dare you!"). The other comment is absolutely correct, we have to speak out for this guy Rick, or else what is to stop the next conservatives in power to come for you?
So I say, so what if they guy suggested that he'd like to see a violent outcome? There's a big jump from words to action. I would draw the line at actually formulating a plan. It sounds to me that the guy, however disgusting it is, would like to see someone else commit an act of violence against certain politicians. Big deal? I think a lot of people certainly wanted physical harm to come to Bush (and maybe still do), but that's a far cry from actually doing or planning to do it. The thought can't be illegal. So why should saying it out loud be illegal?
How many schoolkids say out loud to the teacher scolding them, "I wish you would die!" Do we start expelling those kids now? Where does this all end?
And worse, who decides?
Actually, Thinker, We can't say anything we want. "I'm going to kill the President," comes to mind.
And there is a huge difference in saying "I wish you would die!" and saying, "These people need to be made an example of and here's their addresses."
I don't have any problems with people like Turner being charged with a crime, which is what law enforcement officials feel he committed.
Who decides, Thinker? A judge. Or a jury of our peers. It's called our criminal justice system.
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Well obviously all you communist, liberal pricks will be disappointed, as he has broken no laws and was released, and is planning a counter suit...http://turnerradionetwork.com/
Uh oh...I think Hal made bond!
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Thinker: if your kid says to a teacher or another kid "I'm going to kill you!" he is going to get in big trouble and deservedly so. At least he'll learn those are not words you throw around casually.
Incitement is exactly that, incitement. When you take to a public forum and say "you should kill so and so and here are their names and addresses" that's crossing a pretty clear line. Freedom of speech is not an absolute. Conspiracy, for example, is not protected speech, it's a criminal action even if you don't get around to do the deed.
he has broken no laws and was released, and is planning a counter suit.
It's funny how all these guys who hate the guvamint and trial lawyers and activist judges, the first thing they do is take someone to court.
I love irony.
Alex/Rick-
I understand this kind of speech bothers you. But to me, underlying the concept of "incitement" is that some guy with a blog, or a radio show, whatever---that guy has magical powers over others to make them do what he says.
That is what bothers me here. If someone says to me, "So-and-so is opposed to your political views, here is their address, now go and kill them!" I'm not going to go kill anybody. And if for whatever reason I decided to, it sure wouldn't be because some blogger or Rush Limbaugh told me to.
I mean, do you guys assume that there are people in our society that simply do what they are told, no matter who tells them to do it?
I think there is a line between a criminal plot to kill and what could be political speech. I don't think this guy was involved in a plot to kill, he wasn't masterminding anything.
To me its political speech.
Alex-note you twisted my words around. I said the kid says he wishes the teacher would die, that's different from a direct threat that he's going to kill her.
Obviously we can't live in a society where people are allowed to threaten each other. But what's wrong with wishing ill on other (legally, not morally)? And if its not illegal to have those wishes, why would be illegal to say them out loud? Or put them on a blog?
Don't get me wrong, I think its wrong to kill. I think its wrong to hire someone to kill. But I don't think its wrong to say, well if so-and-so weren't around life would be better.
I remember Bill Maher (sp?) said exactly that about Cheney (might have been Bush) and got a lot of flack over it. But it was legal.
I don't see much difference here, other than, I hate to say it, this guy doesn't share our views but maybe Bill Maher did. So as I say, I feel I need to speak out for this guy to protect the right of others to do it when I happen to agree. You guys disagree, I'm not sure why, but fair enough.
We can throw out these hypotheticals all day, but if you followed the Kos link you would know this is what he said...
"It is our intent to foment direct action against these individuals personally," the blog stated. "These beastly government officials should be made an example of as a warning to others in government: Obey the Constitution or die."
"If any state attorney, police department or court thinks they're going to get uppity with us about this; I suspect we have enough bullets to put them down too."
Now, Thinker, you can defend these kind of death threats to politicians and politicians and members of the judiciary all you want. After all, it's your right. But the fact of the matter is that someone deemed it a violation of the law.
We'll see how it turns out. And if the guy is found guilty of committing a crime, you can come back and tell us the judge or jury were wrong, too. It's your opinion.
And there are probably plenty of guys sitting in jail that would agree with you.
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The only one distorting words here is you Thinker: this guy didn't say "wish to die", he said "direct action", "made an example" and "put them down too" the latter referring to law enforcement. Even if you want to believe it was all rhetorical, this is terrorism, plain and simple. It's an attempt to intimidate elected officials and law enforcement. And if you don't believe there are a nutjob or two who will take action -and all it takes is one- then you haven't been paying attention.
Try making these kind of specific threats against Obama or a federal congressman or senator, and you'll see how quickly the Secret Service is knocking at your door and with good reason.
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