George W. Bush, 2004:"[John] Kerry said, and I quote, 'The war on terror is far less of a military operation and far more of an intelligence-gathering law-enforcement operation.' I disagree.... After the chaos and carnage of September the 11th, it is not enough to serve our enemies with legal papers.
Yesterday:
NEW YORK – Four men arrested on charges of plotting to bomb a Jewish temple and shoot down military planes are expected to appear Thursday in federal court in White Plains.
Officials told The Associated Press the arrests came after a nearly yearlong undercover operation that began in Newburgh, N.Y., about 70 miles north of New York City.
James Cromitie, David Williams, Onta Williams and Laguerre Payen, all of Newburgh, were charged with conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction within the United States and conspiracy to acquire and use anti-aircraft missiles, the U.S. attorney's office said.
Three of the defendants are U.S. citizens and one is of Haitian descent, officials said.
[...]
Rep. Peter King, the senior Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee, was briefed on the case following the arrests.
"This was a long, well-planned investigation, and it shows how real the threat is from homegrown terrorists," said King, of New York.
Who knew that John Kerry was such a visionary when it came to protecting the United States of America?
No word yet on who was waterboarded and what countries were invaded to effect the arrests of these alleged terrorists.
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24 comments:
and did you know my husband, John Kerry served in Vietnam?
Which is more than Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney, Mr. Limbaugh, Mr. Hannity, Mr. Beck, Mr. Boehner, and Mr. McConnell did.
Just for the record.
I could not agree more. We have nothing to fear from foreigners. It is clear that the Middle East has been transformed. Why just the other day, Iran launched a celebratory toy rocket in honor of this new era of peace and understanding. Likewise, Hamas launched celebratory toy rockets into Israel as tokens of peace and tranquility. This all occurred just days after Obama's meeting with Netanyahu, wherein Obama demanded that certain areas of the Middle East be kept absolutely Judenrein.
Particularly in light of Obama's Judenrein policy, the peoples of Middle East origins now love us and we have nothing to fear from them.
We need to understand that all across the Middle East when they go to Mosque, particularly in Mecca, and shout "Death to America!".....why that's just jokes. We should just lighten up a little.
Yes there is no difference between domestic and foreign plots. No doubt if this plot were hatched in Pakistan we would have served indictments left and right like we did in the 90's and disaster would have been avoided.
Anon: are you the biggest wimp in America or what? Cowboy up. Grow some stones.
wussy-
I'm not going to baited into your little game. I'm not going to stoop to your level and pretend that 9/11 was the act of Muslim terrorists from the Middle East. I'm not going to stoop to your level and say it was Muslims in the Middle East that danced and cheered the 9/11 attack. I'm not going to stoop to your level and say that Al Queda is a Muslim organization. No sir, I won't take that bait.
It is very clear we don't need military solutions to terrorism. Just look at how well sanctions have worked against Iran. Their missile and nuclear programs have basically shut down, and they are clearly reforming their ways. Hamas and Hezbollah have embraced the right of Israel to exist.
Obama is truly mighty, and the blogger is absolutely right that John Kerry is just a tremendous genius. John Kerry may just be the smartest man on the planet, the most wise. Of course, behind every great man is a great woman, and Theresa Catsup is just a modern day wonder woman. I don't understand why Obama has not appointed Kerry and Catsup to posts in his cabinet, because they are so wise. Obama is wiser than me, so I am sure he has his reasons.
anon...
BOO!
Nice try Wussy. With Obama as my shepherd and savior, I have no fear.
Hey, anonymous, you sound exactly like someone I work with!
If you ask me, these 4 should get the death penalty and it should be televised. Not the lethal injection either. The chair.
Shouldn't we have a trial first, BM? Even though I know it's old-fashioned these days, innocent before proven guilty and all that?
Oh, yeah, and Go Mets!
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Anonymous: this wasn't a post about whether a threat to the U.S. was/is real, it's about how to handle it. Bush discounted the significance of law enforcement and pushed his preemptive war bit that played well with voters...for a while. Kerry, and many others, recognized the role that law enforcement had in the GWOT and spoke out about it even it earned him criticism from people like yourself.
On a side note, how about some reasonable discussion instead of that silly crap you're laying down? Are you capable of doing that?
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Rick, in this case the trial is a waste of time and money. These guys were busted cold, to the extent that they were supplied fake bombs to aid them in their plans. No trial necessary.
You would be a Mets fan...haha
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MjUwZjcwOWQ1NjUwNTBlYWJiYWFmMzdlNmYxYTQ1OGU=
LOPEZ: You sent Rahman and Sayyid Nosair away for life. What was the most important lesson from that trial and investigation?
MCCARTHY: That there are severe limitations to how effective the criminal justice system can be in combating international terrorism, and severe downsides to using it. Under our due-process rules, trials necessarily create and convey to our enemies a lot of intelligence that is very useful to them. If the justice system is the principal counterterrorism response, it betrays a lack of seriousness about our security that our enemies notice and are fortified by. As a practical matter — Abdel Rahman being one of a handful of exceptions — most important jihadists are beyond our justice system’s reach. As I often note, bin Laden’s been under U.S. indictment for a decade — i.e., since before the embassy bombings, the Millennium plot, the Cole bombing, and 9/11. The indictment doesn’t seem to have deterred him much.
Gabriel: Not too surprising from a guy who contributes to the NRO and emails Rush. I'm sure someone who contributes to Daily Kos and corresponds with Michael Moore would disagree.
There are numerous examples to cite where in the U.S. and Europe where terrorist plots have been interrupted or thwarted after arrests have been made. I'm not saying that law enforcement is the only way or primary way to battle terrorism. I'm maintaining that it has a far more significant role than W, and most of the Far Right, believe.
Blind Mind: Thank goodness our values as a country are such that we don't do that.
I'm not really a Mets fan. Just wanted to get you going. :)
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That line about Bin Laden being under indictment for a decade and undeterred is laughable to the point of invalidating the whole quote: what prosecutor would say the justice system is ineffective because the police -in this case the Bush administration- wasn't willing to go capture the real criminal, instead dedicating themselves to run a racket -the Iraq war- on the side? You got Bush himself saying he wasn't thinking about Bin Laden, the guy who killed more than 3,000 Americans. That is lack of seriousness and "fortifying" the enemy.
The Orkin man tells me the way to keep pests from disturbing my home is to exterminate them *before* they get in. He does spray a little in the house, but the outside is more important, particularly for avoiding termites that have the potential to destroy the whole home.
Sounds to me like John Kerry thinks the way to deal with ants, roaches, rats and termites is to walk around with a shoe in your hand and just squish them when you see them.
Who knows how many he misses that are hiding in the walls, or scurry away as soon as the lights come on.
No, seems to me the Orkin man has it right. Kill them before they get into your house. And if your neighbor won't do anything about his problems, you have to spray a little onto his lawn too, with or without his permission.
Terrorists are, after all, vermin. Kill them where they live and breed, don't wait until you find one crawling in your bed.
Hey, anonymous, you sound a lot like someone I work with.
Rick, I can understand trials in most cases but these cases are a waste of time and money. Look, if youre a terrorist and you know that you can pretty much do anything, be caught, and then have some scumbag lawyer fight for your freedom and the cash reward that comes with it, whats to stop you from trying to bomb everywhere?
Harsh crimes need harsh punishments. These guys were busted cold turkey. Its like walking in on your wife having sex with another man only to have her deny it ever happened at a later date. Guilty, guilty, guilty. Thanks for playing, we've got a lovely prize package for you. Youve won a one-way 1st class ticket to the electric chair of your dreams! Those of you second place finishers will leave with a home version of the game, and a years supply of Jiffy Pop. As always, tune in next time a terror plot is exposed and busted cold!
You talk as if bringing terrorists -or murderers, rapists and thieves busted in the act- into court automatically means that they would be freed by the arguments of some "scumbag" lawyer.
But the reality is different. The reality is that the justice system WORKS. Find a case outside TV or the movies where a known terrorist has been freed despite evidence. Trust me, real terrorists -real criminals for that matter- don't have their hopes high in the american justice system.
Rick: While I don't contribute money to NR nor do I email Rush, thanks for trying to dismiss the opinion of an actual prosecutor who sent away terrorists for life. You stated "I'm not saying that law enforcement is the only way or primary way to battle terrorism. " Actually you are saying that law enforcement should be the primary way if you disagree with the former president and agree with Senator Kerry. No doubt you hold Kerry in high regard for his wisdom of voting for the Iraq war.
Alex: You stated "n this case the Bush administration- wasn't willing to go capture the real criminal", so by your logic President Clinton is to blame as well for turning down the Sudanese government twice when they wanted to turn Bin Laden over twice before he eventually fled and settled in Afghanistan where 9/11 was plotted?
Alex on your second reply about bringing terrorist here. I think we have to make a distinction between "home grown" domestic plots and foreign types taken to Gitmo etcetera. If they are caught on a battle field they don't belong in America's federal justice system, they belong to the system of justice always applied to POW's or illegal enemy combatants as has been our history the last couple of hundred years. Don't bring them here because they're not supposed to be here.
Gabriel: don't pick and choose. It's not my logic, it's the logic of McCarthy. In your quote he's saying that indicting Bin Laden has not deterred him. I don't care if you want to blame Clinton as well, don't think bringing up his name means much to me. What you can't deny is that Bush didn't make much effort to bring him to justice. An indictment is not supposed to be a deterrent -wouldn't an "actual prosecutor" know that?- it's an order to bring a criminal to justice. Bush just didn't care.
About bringing them "here": make another distinctions between those who are detained because they were considered of value for intelligence and those who are detained because they are suspect of terrorism. The law of armed conflicts you cite was stretched beyond any prior practice to classify many of the former as "enemy combatants". That has been extensively documented and dozens have had to be released. And what would you do with the real terrorists? Would you rather turn them to Afganistan's or Pakistan's justice? Care to guess how fast they will be back in a terrorist camp? Besides, there's a long tradition of judging foreign nationals in the US federal system for crimes against the US, Noriega for example. You either trust the system or you don't.
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